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	Comments on: Advertiser May Have Claims Against SEO Firm Using Undisclosed Spammy Practices	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:30:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: L W		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-991</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[L W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-991</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I find this lawsuit disheartening.  As an SEO Provider for law firms (I run Firm Flip, firmflip.com) we see many clients come from other companies after they were hit by serious Google penalties.  While we can do some recovery work, true recovery is often a timely endeavor.  The rates charged by competitors are equally outrageous - $1,000/month+ for a single article of content is absurd.  My company, on the other hand, provides optimized websites for as little as $195/mo and more comprehensive SEO efforts for $495/mo.  We never promise results, Google explicitly warns against companies that do.  I deliver what I promise and wish others would follow suit.  Feel free to shoot me an email lucas@firmflip.com if you want more information or to continue this discussion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this lawsuit disheartening.  As an SEO Provider for law firms (I run Firm Flip, firmflip.com) we see many clients come from other companies after they were hit by serious Google penalties.  While we can do some recovery work, true recovery is often a timely endeavor.  The rates charged by competitors are equally outrageous &#8211; $1,000/month+ for a single article of content is absurd.  My company, on the other hand, provides optimized websites for as little as $195/mo and more comprehensive SEO efforts for $495/mo.  We never promise results, Google explicitly warns against companies that do.  I deliver what I promise and wish others would follow suit.  Feel free to shoot me an email <a href="mailto:lucas@firmflip.com">lucas@firmflip.com</a> if you want more information or to continue this discussion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Another Section 230 Win For Ripoff Report&#8211;Torati v. Hodak &#124; Technology &#38; Marketing Law Blog		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-877</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another Section 230 Win For Ripoff Report&#8211;Torati v. Hodak &#124; Technology &#38; Marketing Law Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 16:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-877</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] keyword metatags are technologically inconsequential, citing Network Automation, Seikaly &#038; Stewart, and Matt Cutts&#8217; [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] keyword metatags are technologically inconsequential, citing Network Automation, Seikaly &amp; Stewart, and Matt Cutts&#8217; [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: CAN-SPAM Preemption Doesn&#8217;t Apply To Fraud&#8230;And More &#124; Technology &#38; Marketing Law Blog		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CAN-SPAM Preemption Doesn&#8217;t Apply To Fraud&#8230;And More &#124; Technology &#38; Marketing Law Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2014 18:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Advertiser May Have Claims Against SEO Firm Using Undisclosed Spammy Practices [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Advertiser May Have Claims Against SEO Firm Using Undisclosed Spammy Practices [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kurt Penberg		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurt Penberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2014 13:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The trick to prevent it will be to make sure that contracts are very thorough in describing what is going to be done and how it will be implemented, that way the SEO and the client are clear on what is happening behind the curtain as it were.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trick to prevent it will be to make sure that contracts are very thorough in describing what is going to be done and how it will be implemented, that way the SEO and the client are clear on what is happening behind the curtain as it were.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Benjamin West		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Benjamin West]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2014 16:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-859&quot;&gt;Jon Burnham&lt;/a&gt;.

The client appears to be arguing that due diligence was obstructed by the defendant&#039;s claims of &#039;trade secret&#039; and must, therefore, bear the responsibility.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-859">Jon Burnham</a>.</p>
<p>The client appears to be arguing that due diligence was obstructed by the defendant&#8217;s claims of &#8216;trade secret&#8217; and must, therefore, bear the responsibility.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Benjamin West		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Benjamin West]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2014 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-864&quot;&gt;Nate Henry Luedtke&lt;/a&gt;.

I don&#039;t have any special access here, all this information was in the statement by the plaintiffs ... in the article above.  The suit argues that the defendants actively violated Google&#039;s guidelines as were effective at the time of service rendered, and knew that they were violating the guidelines, and that, furthermore, that rather than disclose that they were doing so, objected to disclosure on the basis that their methods were trade secret.

IANAL and the validity of the claims has yet to be established by the court, but the suit, as quoted above disambiguates a claim against results from their suit.  They&#039;re not suing because RAINMAKER didn&#039;t deliver.


They&#039;re suing because RAINMAKER was metaphorically hired to fix their paint job, and knowingly and intentionally undermined the paint job on the entire car, and attempted to hide the fact that they had done so.


Notwithstanding the above, My point is that your comment is non sequitur.  In fact, not guaranteeing results is what the defendant did, and it is not doing them any good, because, as the plaintiff argues, you can&#039;t disclaim doing nothing or causing harm, and charge for doing something, or escape the consequences of doing harm.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-864">Nate Henry Luedtke</a>.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any special access here, all this information was in the statement by the plaintiffs &#8230; in the article above.  The suit argues that the defendants actively violated Google&#8217;s guidelines as were effective at the time of service rendered, and knew that they were violating the guidelines, and that, furthermore, that rather than disclose that they were doing so, objected to disclosure on the basis that their methods were trade secret.</p>
<p>IANAL and the validity of the claims has yet to be established by the court, but the suit, as quoted above disambiguates a claim against results from their suit.  They&#8217;re not suing because RAINMAKER didn&#8217;t deliver.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re suing because RAINMAKER was metaphorically hired to fix their paint job, and knowingly and intentionally undermined the paint job on the entire car, and attempted to hide the fact that they had done so.</p>
<p>Notwithstanding the above, My point is that your comment is non sequitur.  In fact, not guaranteeing results is what the defendant did, and it is not doing them any good, because, as the plaintiff argues, you can&#8217;t disclaim doing nothing or causing harm, and charge for doing something, or escape the consequences of doing harm.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben Guest		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-870</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Guest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2014 20:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-870</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-861&quot;&gt;Ben Guest&lt;/a&gt;.

And raise your prices of course...

Sorry, just responded to your original post.  Did not get through the entire thread yet.  ;-P]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-861">Ben Guest</a>.</p>
<p>And raise your prices of course&#8230;</p>
<p>Sorry, just responded to your original post.  Did not get through the entire thread yet.  ;-P</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adam		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-869</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2014 20:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-869</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-868&quot;&gt;Twtr Guy&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes. But that&#039;s not really the point. Had I known the seos were breaching se guidelines and our agreement I would not have continued.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-868">Twtr Guy</a>.</p>
<p>Yes. But that&#8217;s not really the point. Had I known the seos were breaching se guidelines and our agreement I would not have continued.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Twtr Guy		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-868</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Twtr Guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2014 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-868</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-855&quot;&gt;Adam&lt;/a&gt;.

Did you get good positive results before Penguin?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-855">Adam</a>.</p>
<p>Did you get good positive results before Penguin?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Twtr Guy		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Twtr Guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2014 18:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=12231#comment-867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-866&quot;&gt;Jenny Halasz&lt;/a&gt;.

Duplicate content penalty! But who shall we blame?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2014/05/advertiser-may-have-claims-against-seo-firm-using-undisclosed-spammy-practices.htm#comment-866">Jenny Halasz</a>.</p>
<p>Duplicate content penalty! But who shall we blame?</p>
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