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	Comments on: Quick Debrief on the Gonzalez v. Google Oral Arguments	</title>
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	<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm</link>
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		<title>
		By: Debrief on the Taamneh v. Twitter Oral Arguments - Technology &#38; Marketing Law Blog		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm#comment-3683</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debrief on the Taamneh v. Twitter Oral Arguments - Technology &#38; Marketing Law Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2023 18:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=24883#comment-3683</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] See my debrief on the companion Gonzalez v. Google oral arguments. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] See my debrief on the companion Gonzalez v. Google oral arguments. [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Section 230 Is a Load-Bearing Wall—Is It Coming Down? – The Markup		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm#comment-3634</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Section 230 Is a Load-Bearing Wall—Is It Coming Down? – The Markup]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2023 13:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=24883#comment-3634</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Your instinct is right, and I’m going to cheat and borrow from what professor Eric Goldman wrote, summarizing the Gonzalez oral arguments: “Algorithms are never neutral and always [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Your instinct is right, and I’m going to cheat and borrow from what professor Eric Goldman wrote, summarizing the Gonzalez oral arguments: “Algorithms are never neutral and always [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: A world of lawsuits - net.wars		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm#comment-3633</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A world of lawsuits - net.wars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2023 13:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=24883#comment-3633</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] SCOTUS hearings &#8211; Gonzalez v. Google, experts&#8217; live blog, Twitter v. Taamneh &#8211; have been widely covered in detail. In most cases, writers note that [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] SCOTUS hearings &#8211; Gonzalez v. Google, experts&#8217; live blog, Twitter v. Taamneh &#8211; have been widely covered in detail. In most cases, writers note that [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Links for Week of February 24, 2023 &#8211; Cyberlaw Central		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm#comment-3632</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Links for Week of February 24, 2023 &#8211; Cyberlaw Central]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2023 10:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=24883#comment-3632</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.&#8230; [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] <a href="https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.&#038;#8230" rel="ugc">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.&#038;#8230</a>; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: btabke		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm#comment-3558</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[btabke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 22:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=24883#comment-3558</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have run Forums and BBS&#039;s almost continuously since 1982. I have profited and made a living off of other peoples discussions. I give them a platform to &quot;speak&quot; and am a lifelong believer in free speech - almost any speech.

What Google has done, is not give people a platform for &quot;free speech&quot; - what Google has done is to take people speech in the form of websites, images, videos, and profited off of them. I fully support YouTube a s platform for public outlet. However, they also are a conduit for the wholesale theft of copyrighted material. 

Regardless of what filters and moderation have been implemented, once a copyright piece of music, video, or images are placed on their system, deleting it does not put the genie back in the bottle! Once it is &quot;broadcast&quot; on YouTube, it is the wind. There is zero recourse for anyone who has copyrighted material stolen by a third party and placed on YouTube. This is not &quot;free speech&quot;, this is Google profiting off of speech - it is &quot;stolen speech&quot;.  230 legalized the theft and profiting off of &quot;free speech&quot;. Allowing people to break the law on their platform? How is that any different from SilkRoad?

Aside from YouTube, Google search is even more problematic. They ask no permission, agree to no terms of website service, or require any website owners agreement to take their content, produce their product and broadcast that product to make money on the SERPS (btw: I was the guy who coined the acronym SERP in 2000).

So here we are in 2023 with artists and journalists are getting their knickers in a bunch over AI&#039;s being trained with their content. Welcome to the party boys - you are 25+ years too late.

What this all means to me after 4 decades of tech work, is that the internet is fundamentally broken by policy. Those policies have helped create the biggest group of monopolies since AT&#038;T built on the back of using &quot;free speech&quot; without permission.  

&quot;This is the way the internet works  - oh my the sky will fall&quot;  is not a good enough argument.

230 Must be neutered in order to bring back a free web. 

(The comments are mine and given freely, but EricGoldman.org will profit via the Google Ads currently running on this page).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have run Forums and BBS&#8217;s almost continuously since 1982. I have profited and made a living off of other peoples discussions. I give them a platform to &#8220;speak&#8221; and am a lifelong believer in free speech &#8211; almost any speech.</p>
<p>What Google has done, is not give people a platform for &#8220;free speech&#8221; &#8211; what Google has done is to take people speech in the form of websites, images, videos, and profited off of them. I fully support YouTube a s platform for public outlet. However, they also are a conduit for the wholesale theft of copyrighted material. </p>
<p>Regardless of what filters and moderation have been implemented, once a copyright piece of music, video, or images are placed on their system, deleting it does not put the genie back in the bottle! Once it is &#8220;broadcast&#8221; on YouTube, it is the wind. There is zero recourse for anyone who has copyrighted material stolen by a third party and placed on YouTube. This is not &#8220;free speech&#8221;, this is Google profiting off of speech &#8211; it is &#8220;stolen speech&#8221;.  230 legalized the theft and profiting off of &#8220;free speech&#8221;. Allowing people to break the law on their platform? How is that any different from SilkRoad?</p>
<p>Aside from YouTube, Google search is even more problematic. They ask no permission, agree to no terms of website service, or require any website owners agreement to take their content, produce their product and broadcast that product to make money on the SERPS (btw: I was the guy who coined the acronym SERP in 2000).</p>
<p>So here we are in 2023 with artists and journalists are getting their knickers in a bunch over AI&#8217;s being trained with their content. Welcome to the party boys &#8211; you are 25+ years too late.</p>
<p>What this all means to me after 4 decades of tech work, is that the internet is fundamentally broken by policy. Those policies have helped create the biggest group of monopolies since AT&amp;T built on the back of using &#8220;free speech&#8221; without permission.  </p>
<p>&#8220;This is the way the internet works  &#8211; oh my the sky will fall&#8221;  is not a good enough argument.</p>
<p>230 Must be neutered in order to bring back a free web. </p>
<p>(The comments are mine and given freely, but EricGoldman.org will profit via the Google Ads currently running on this page).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Reisman		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm#comment-3552</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Reisman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 19:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=24883#comment-3552</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very helpful quick take, but I do not agree that &quot;...prioritization and removal are two sides of the same coin. If a service removes content, it prioritizes the rest.&quot; As clarified in the second diagram in my recent &lt;a href=&quot;https://techpolicy.press/from-freedom-of-speech-and-reach-to-freedom-of-expression-and-impression/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;article in &lt;i&gt;Tech Policy Press&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, in principle, removal is censorship, taking an item out of the content database for everyone, prioritization is selectivity, customized to individual feeds, and may remove (=downrank) it from some while upranking it for others -- and leave it accessible for searching by anyone. Platforms may not always do it that way, but they should, and the freedom of expression/impression implications are vastly different. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/da8c2ab223588f195ed7b388b63bf1d975ecf3040cd68562818033405aa5d582.jpg]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very helpful quick take, but I do not agree that &#8220;&#8230;prioritization and removal are two sides of the same coin. If a service removes content, it prioritizes the rest.&#8221; As clarified in the second diagram in my recent <a href="https://techpolicy.press/from-freedom-of-speech-and-reach-to-freedom-of-expression-and-impression/" rel="nofollow ugc">article in <i>Tech Policy Press</i></a>, in principle, removal is censorship, taking an item out of the content database for everyone, prioritization is selectivity, customized to individual feeds, and may remove (=downrank) it from some while upranking it for others &#8212; and leave it accessible for searching by anyone. Platforms may not always do it that way, but they should, and the freedom of expression/impression implications are vastly different. <a href="https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/da8c2ab223588f195ed7b388b63bf1d975ecf3040cd68562818033405aa5d582.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/da8c2ab223588f195ed7b388b63bf1d975ecf3040cd68562818033405aa5d582.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Sieminski		</title>
		<link>https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/02/quick-debrief-on-the-gonzalez-v-google-oral-arguments.htm#comment-3551</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Sieminski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 19:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.ericgoldman.org/?p=24883#comment-3551</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you Eric. Great analysis as always. I share many of your concerns - and also your instinct that this policy debate (which is what it is) is best resolved in the legislature. If only we had a functional one... this would be a very very interesting and important debate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Eric. Great analysis as always. I share many of your concerns &#8211; and also your instinct that this policy debate (which is what it is) is best resolved in the legislature. If only we had a functional one&#8230; this would be a very very interesting and important debate.</p>
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